Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC passport and military conscription issues.

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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Thu Aug 30, 2018 17:35

Here's something new.

An Indian-related source from New Zealand has a new article on Taiwan and immigration.

It contains the following quote from a high-ranking person at Taiwan's National Immigration Agency:

We propose to allow dual citizenship from next year to people from Cambodia, Indonesia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam. We also have a comprehensive plan in place to welcome people from the ten NSP countries, including Australia and New Zealand.


NSP refers to the government's New Southbound Policy. The government (in one administration after another) seems to have priorities.

source: Taiwan welcomes new migrants with Special Settlement Programmes

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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Fri Sep 07, 2018 18:36

cranky laowai wrote:
Kal El wrote:
cranky laowai wrote:I also needed to fill in forms with my parents names -- their Chinese names, in Chinese characters. So future applicants may want to think about that early rather than be forced to come up with something on the spot.

I believe I did warn about that in previous threads and that write up I did for this forum.

True. :bow:

They didn't say anything about a self-addressed, stamped envelope, so I'll just go back in person. FWIW, there's a post office right there in the immigration agency (B1, in the back corner).

The paperwork was finished on Monday, but the immigration office failed to let me know like they said they would. Good thing my wife decided to double check with them today.

At the immigration office I handed in my APRC today (and won't be getting it back), along with a photocopy of my U.S. passport's ID page. I filled in a few more forms and signed a few pages, but that's all. I now have an official document I should be able to use to get my standard Taiwan ID (not TARC). After I have that I can go to MOFA for a passport.

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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Kal El » Sat Sep 08, 2018 07:42

cranky laowai wrote:At the immigration office I handed in my APRC today (and won't be getting it back), along with a photocopy of my U.S. passport's ID page. I filled in a few more forms and signed a few pages, but that's all. I now have an official document I should be able to use to get my standard Taiwan ID (not TARC). After I have that I can go to MOFA for a passport.

I understand their confusion, as this is all a bit backwards. Our process was hand in ARC, get form, get TARC (and passport with no ID number), wait a year, hand in TARC, get form, get ID (and passport with ID number).
The worst thing about the TARC is you can't travel abroad for a year without prolonging your wait for an ID, and it looked exactly like an ARC/APRC so you got zero benefit from it.
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Mon Sep 10, 2018 15:49

Kal El, Poagao, etc.: When you switched over from an ARC to a TARC and then to a proper Taiwan ID (shenfenzheng), did the change of ID numbers cause you any particular problems? I'm wondering about possible complications moving my medical records, bank accounts, tax records, and especially pension payments over to my new ID (once I get it). Were any agencies/businesses/sectors more or less troublesome than others?
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Kal El » Mon Sep 10, 2018 21:50

cranky laowai wrote:Kal El, Poagao, etc.: When you switched over from an ARC to a TARC and then to a proper Taiwan ID (shenfenzheng), did the change of ID numbers cause you any particular problems? I'm wondering about possible complications moving my medical records, bank accounts, tax records, and especially pension payments over to my new ID (once I get it). Were any agencies/businesses/sectors more or less troublesome than others?

I didn't have any problems with insurance, investments, banking, health insurance or anything else. I just produced the necessary paperwork to update my information and all was settled. For example, I've had my China Trust bank account for more than 16 years. When I got my TARC I did nothing, but when I got my ID I went in and changed my information (ID number, address, hukou, citizenship etc). There were no issues. Two weeks later I applied for a credit card and got one with a NT$120k limit.
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Poagao » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:53

cranky laowai wrote:Kal El, Poagao, etc.: When you switched over from an ARC to a TARC and then to a proper Taiwan ID (shenfenzheng), did the change of ID numbers cause you any particular problems? I'm wondering about possible complications moving my medical records, bank accounts, tax records, and especially pension payments over to my new ID (once I get it). Were any agencies/businesses/sectors more or less troublesome than others?


I don't really recall any trouble with those things, but it's been a quarter of a century...even if I remembered, I'm sure everything is different now.

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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Thu Sep 13, 2018 23:09

I went to the household registration office today and now finally have an official, full-fledged Taiwan ID (not a TARC) and a hukou. So that's sorted. :smile:

Meanwhile, the MOI approved another nine people yesterday for citizenship without renunciation. That brings the total to 59.

The nine professionals chosen in this round included five who work in education, one expert in economics, two employed in culture and the arts and one whose field was listed as "other." The latest group of new naturalized Taiwanese citizens includes four Americans, one German, two Malaysians, one Ukrainian and one Bolivian.

Among those selected include an American scholar with the Chinese surname of Chu (朱) who specializes in physics and was cited by top academic journals for his work in valleytronics. The German recipient, whose Chinese surname is listed as Hsu (許), specializes in robotics and won second place in a robot soccer competition.

A Bolivian woman with the Chinese surname of (克), who specializes in system integration, was selected for her work in technology services for companies such as Kinpo Electronics and Carrefour. A Malaysian actress was selected for her work publishing a performing arts yearbook from 2005 to 2007, providing training programs related to the promotion of performing arts groups and performing in famous plays such as "Secret Love for the Peach Blossom Spring" (暗戀桃花源), "Dreamlike Dream" (如夢之夢), and "Book of Water" (水中之書).

A Ukrainian painter identified as Ivan, who regards himself as a "Nature Minder," was selected for introducing the beauty and simplicity of Taiwan to European countries through his paintings, which depict scenery of Taiwan and portraits of Taiwanese people.


It continues to look like the government is loosening things up, so even people without a kick-ass resume or recommendation letter might want to try. Of course, if the surprising proposal I mentioned at the top of this page goes through, maybe it won't be long before the government just gets rid of renunciation altogether.

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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Kal El » Fri Sep 14, 2018 08:06

I'm not sure if I missed it, but is there still some sort of language requirement (3 semesters at a recognised language school etc) and/or citizenship test? I know you were preparing for it, but I can't remember if or what has changed wrt that requirement.
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:11

Kal El wrote:I'm not sure if I missed it, but is there still some sort of language requirement (3 semesters at a recognised language school etc) and/or citizenship test? I know you were preparing for it, but I can't remember if or what has changed wrt that requirement.

Yes, there's still a required test of civic rights/responsibilities that, by being in Mandarin (or Taiwanese or Hakka or one of the languages of Taiwan's tribes) also functions as a language exam. The test is a bit different than when you took it (most recent revision: March 14, 2018) but still basically the same.

Maybe one can substitute prior study at a government-approved institute for the exam; I don't know.

People can choose to take the written or oral version. Here's the Taiwan naturalization oral exam with rough Pinyin and approximate English translation.

I think that the alternative, if one doesn't pass the test, is many hours of study (72?? 200??) in government-run classes. The main students in those are woman from Vietnam and Indonesia.

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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:51

In recent weeks President Tsai has urged more missionaries to apply for [dual] citizenship. And the gummit has made it easier for those with a Plum Blossom ARC (all 90 of 'em) to get ROC citizenship without renunciation. Neither of those will exactly be opening the floodgates.

And yesterday a Canadian who has been living in Taiwan since 1964 -- and who, notably, isn't a missionary -- received his ID card. The news says he's "the first non-clergy person in the city [of Xinbei] to be granted Taiwan citizenship without having to give up his own." That's certainly not true. But he seems to be a worthy addition.
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Corns » Fri Oct 12, 2018 19:52

But they are giving them all the Ben-Gay generation people. I mean, such liberalizations are certainly a step in the right direction. But it seems that everyone who gets them will likely only enjoy them for a decade or so. When they start giving them to 30-somethings, it will be newsworthy.
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby jimipresley » Fri Oct 12, 2018 20:22

Corns wrote:But they are giving them all the Ben-Gay generation people. I mean, such liberalizations are certainly a step in the right direction. But it seems that everyone who gets them will likely only enjoy them for a decade or so. When they start giving them to 30-somethings, it will be newsworthy.

Dude. Cranky's 30-something!
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Icon » Sat Oct 13, 2018 00:19

Honestly, the bar is set too high. As my coworker was saying, she's worked 25 years for the government, has given birth to 4 Taiwanese citizens...And that does not count for citizenship.

We were listening that Canadian guy's qualifications: he has lived here over 50 years, founded the Canadian Society and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, ... how can an come close?
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby Corns » Sat Oct 13, 2018 01:02

Icon wrote: founded the Canadian Society and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, ... how can an come close?


Some people have accomplished more in a day by just sitting on a rocking chair! :lol: :lol: :lol: :grin: :twocents:
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Re: Legislator proposes eliminating renunciation requirement

Postby cranky laowai » Sat Oct 13, 2018 14:35

jimipresley wrote:
Corns wrote:But they are giving them all the Ben-Gay generation people. I mean, such liberalizations are certainly a step in the right direction. But it seems that everyone who gets them will likely only enjoy them for a decade or so. When they start giving them to 30-somethings, it will be newsworthy.

Dude. Cranky's 30-something!

Well, I was thirty-something when I got here. :grandpa: On the other hand, I'm certainly nowhere close to being able to retire.
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