"Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby cfimages » Wed May 25, 2016 07:06

Was it always optional for C of E? I know it's become that now, but has it always been that way?
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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby Big Vern » Wed May 25, 2016 09:04

cfimages wrote:Was it always optional for C of E? I know it's become that now, but has it always been that way?


Highly unlikely. As with every religious organization it was bound to be more backward and prescriptive in the past. The Church used to have a problem with women and homosexuals. The liberal tradition has ensured those welcome changes.
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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby Tempo Gain » Thu May 26, 2016 00:34

This would apparently be the first time Christians are a minority in England and Wales since pagan times.
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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby HeadhonchoII » Thu May 26, 2016 06:57

cfimages wrote:Most Muslims I've known in my life in the west are more or less non-practicing Muslims. They'll call themselves Muslim because of cultural / family reasons, but that's about it. They don't pray 5 times a day, they drink alcohol, have unmarried sex and all the rest.

Probably similar to my parents generation. My Mum, despite never having gone to church in her life outside of weddings and funerals, used to tick the Church of England box when doing census forms, surveys etc. At least, she did back when I was a kid, I don't think she bothers anymore.



The problem is when Muslims become a large share of the population and some fundamentalist group. Comes in and starts enforcing 'proper islam' . See Malaysia swinging that way and they were very much the more tolerant type before. Don't assume a trend can't change.


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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby Tempo Gain » Wed Jul 13, 2016 20:24

Nothing surprising here, but some interesting statistical analysis of trends in the US.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ca/490724/
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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby HeadhonchoII » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:28

Why are Catholics not counted as Christians..that's a weird un.


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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby Tempo Gain » Thu Jul 14, 2016 20:21

In this article? I don't think they're not. I reread it a far as this:

First, the proportion of white Christians (including Protestants and Catholics) in the country,
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Re: "Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby HeadhonchoII » Mon Jul 18, 2016 20:24

Catholics seem to be almost completely ignored in the article which I found a little strange even though I am an atheist.


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Re:

Postby Bubbha » Fri Jul 22, 2016 22:02

HeadhonchoII wrote:Why are Catholics not counted as Christians..that's a weird un.

I hear that a lot in Taiwan: "Are you Catholic or Christian?" (Answer: "Neither. In any case, Catholics ARE Christians.")
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Catholics & Christians

Postby LostInTaipei » Fri Jul 22, 2016 22:11

Bubbha wrote:
HeadhonchoII wrote:Why are Catholics not counted as Christians..that's a weird un.

I hear that a lot in Taiwan: "Are you Catholic or Christian?" (Answer: "Neither. In any case, Catholics ARE Christians.")

I've never quite understood the perceived separation of Catholicism from Christianity, perhaps especially in American culture - JFK had to give some kind of a speech about how his Catholicism wouldn't conflict with his politics, right? There's an historic mistrust of Catholics, I guess from Protestantism, that I think we don't quite "get" today, just like readers/viewers today are going to not quite get a lot of the (probably related!) anti-Irish and anti-Italian racism from a hundred years ago.
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Re: Catholics & Christians

Postby Kal El » Sat Jul 23, 2016 09:16

LostInTaipei wrote:There's an historic mistrust of Catholics, I guess from Protestantism, that I think we don't quite "get" today.

Who's "we", kemosabe? I don't trust the Papists much myself, never have. It was intensified when I was forced into going to one of their masses as a young un. And as with Mormons, JWs etc, I think they bend the definition of "Christian" to the breaking point, if not beyond. Although, to be fair, so do Baptists like the WBC and these TV evangelists like Creflo Dollar, IMVHO. :twocents:
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Re: Catholics & Christians

Postby LostInTaipei » Sat Jul 23, 2016 09:53

Kal El wrote:
LostInTaipei wrote:There's an historic mistrust of Catholics, I guess from Protestantism, that I think we don't quite "get" today.

Who's "we", kemosabe?

"We" as in a lot of contemporary North Americans, I guess. It's sort of like looking back at vitriolic political debates from previous eras, like the ones footnoted in scholarly editions of "Gulliver's Travels", or the debates around Christianity in the first millennium. "OK ... I can sort of see how that was an issue, but people really cared about that?!" Of course at the time they did, and in future many of our contemporary debates will seem bizarrely petty and arcane. But in contemporary North American culture I don't think many people consider Catholicism significantly different in kind from other schools of Christianity.
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Re: Re:

Postby Tempo Gain » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:06

Bubbha wrote:I hear that a lot in Taiwan: "Are you Catholic or Christian?" (Answer: "Neither. In any case, Catholics ARE Christians.")


I think that's due to "Protestantism" being generally translated as "ji du jiao" or "Christianity", and most people not having much understanding beyond that.
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Re: Catholics & Christians

Postby Kal El » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:28

LostInTaipei wrote:But in contemporary North American culture I don't think many people consider Catholicism significantly different in kind from other schools of Christianity.

In essence, it should be the same thing.
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"Religion may become extinct in nine nations"

Postby HeadhonchoII » Sat Jul 23, 2016 17:15

Presbyterians don't want to consider Catholics as Christians is my feeing, heard the same comment from a friend in New Zealand who was a Presbyterian. The dominant Christian church in Taiwan are/were Presbyterians and they translated their separate terms for Christian and Catholic into Chinese and taught their congregation in the same manner. That's my theory anyway.


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