Time to lose weight.

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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Icon » Mon Aug 07, 2017 16:00

Toad wrote:
Icon wrote:Doctor Toad, I am worried about my gallstones. They could potentially cause another emergency trip to the surgery. Any research that can help me on this matter?

Sorry, I tend to read around issues that affect fitness and body shape because that's what I do for a living. Gallstones just aren't my thing. Only thing I know about them - because my mum has them - is that once they're there, they're there. Up to a point you can prevent them getting bigger, but AFAIK there is no way to erode them.

Icon wrote:And why do we furriners tend to suffer from fatty liver?

While there is a genetic component, this is almost entirely due to excessive sugar and starches. The research is as close to consensus as you can get on that issue. 'Excessive', of course, depends on the individual. Some people can eat half a cheesecake every day and get away with it. Some people turn instantly to flab if they have a cup of sweet tea.

I'm not sure what they've got you eating at the moment, but if your body is depositing fat in your liver and around your internal organs, it's basically because it's run out of other places to put it. Exception: the metabolic pathway for fructose is more likely to end up with deposition of fat in the liver regardless, as opposed to subcutaneous fat. The combination of symptoms you describe is classic Metabolic Syndrome.

It's purely my own opinion - I've not seen the theory advanced elsewhere - but I've come to the conclusion that this is all boils down to metabolic power and/or physical chemistry. All the literature focuses on quantities, but what I see is a problem with rates, ie., power in vs. power out rather than energy in vs. energy out. The reactions and processes that put glucose into your bloodstream will do so at a rate which your body cannot control (much), and that glucose 'push' drives all of the subsequent reaction rates in your body, which your body can control. However, all control systems have hard limits. If you shove glucose into your bloodstream too fast, homeostasis cannot cope. It hits the limit stops. Stuff spills over where it shouldn't; you get a cascade of failure. Over time, this results in a chronic disease state.


I guess it has some genetic component. However, fat distribution is not the same. Me and my third brother have the fat in the middle. My sister was blessed with a big bumbum, but just now was she is turning 38 -baby of the house is turning 38, sniff- my dad was complaining: oh she is so fat! She eats on the run whatever she can find and now she is so fat!" Don't tell me , Sherlock. She's got two masters, a full time job, hubby and 5 year old and she is fat, ayiooo...

But of all of us it is my brother the doctor is the one who has gotten so obese..it's frightening. He was fit but when he started his practice out in the jungle, he had to drive everywhere, and when he got to whatever village they sent him, they would receive him with a feast. It is impolite to say no in our culture. He saw many villages a week.

And we had a diabetic granpa, RIP que de Dios goce. It is a good thing none of us drink.

At least metabolic syndrome has a solution: lose weight. But not too fast, or else you get more gallstones. My brother Peng MD has kidney stones, too. Awesome...not.

They took most of my sugar away at the hospital and the Coke vice has been reduced to one every two months or so. Starches are more problematic but at least I try to rotate: not too much rice, bread or noodles per day. Sugar levels were OK. Will try increasing good cholesterl and more weights in the exercise routine. There is a dress I would have loved to show off this summer.
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Dragonbones » Mon Aug 07, 2017 22:19

I've learned that completely cutting out whole categories (fried foods like donuts and fried chicken, sweet drinks like colas, etc.) on a permanent basis is EASIER, at least for me, than doing a 'one every so often' rule, because the latter can easily slip, whereas an "I don't eat that crap, ever" rule has no flexibility and is thus easier to follow. YMMV
“To cook for the pleasure of it, to devote a portion of our leisure to it, is to declare our independence from the corporations seeking to organize our every waking moment into yet another occasion for consumption." --Michael Pollan

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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Mon Aug 07, 2017 22:46

I completely agree. Although it's not physiologically necessary to do that, it's a very useful psychological trick for most people; it allows them to stay the course without angst. Works for me, anyway. I think I've eaten, like, one donut in the last couple of years, and that's simply because I no longer want to eat donuts.
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Icon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 13:21

I remember when I got to Taiwan, how hard it was to eat the food. Soup had a layer of oil swimming on it, like head on beer. So much pork, mostly fat. Beef in soup with those transparent ties of fat. Fried stuff in every meal, including veggies. That I got used to it and don't feel it anymore as a sticky film in my mouth every time I eat says a lot about how a body can learn to cope. Now we gotta learn to un-cope.
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby HeadhonchoII » Tue Aug 08, 2017 18:30

I happen to be acquainted with one of the world's leading experts on lipids who happens to be Taiwanese.
His conclusion is just do things in moderation . Eating a steak every now and then won't do much harm. Keep your weight in check.

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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby sandman » Tue Aug 08, 2017 18:51

HeadhonchoII wrote:I happen to be acquainted with one of the world's leading experts on lipids who happens to be Taiwanese.
His conclusion is just do things in moderation . Eating a steak every now and then won't do much harm. Keep your weight in check.

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Not much cash to be reaped from that, though.

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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Big Vern » Tue Aug 08, 2017 21:28

sandman wrote:
HeadhonchoII wrote:I happen to be acquainted with one of the world's leading experts on lipids who happens to be Taiwanese.
His conclusion is just do things in moderation . Eating a steak every now and then won't do much harm. Keep your weight in check.

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Not much cash to be reaped from that, though.


Yeah, the common sense market's never been particularly lucrative.
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Tue Aug 08, 2017 23:49

HeadhonchoII wrote:I happen to be acquainted with one of the world's leading experts on lipids who happens to be Taiwanese.
His conclusion is just do things in moderation . Eating a steak every now and then won't do much harm. Keep your weight in check.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


Huge respect to anyone who's an expert on lipids: I know just barely enough about the subject to understand that lard is bloody complicated.

Even so, one can lose sight of the wood for the trees, and I can't help wondering what shape he is. Of course a steak isn't going to do you much harm. Why on earth would it? People have been eating steaks for God knows how many millennia and we're all still here.

There's a guy in my office who likes everyone to know that he's a qualified nutritionist. He's about the same shape as Dilbert. Someone I went to school with is now a well-known immunologist in Australia. He's massively overweight and puffs like a train. When he was 18 he had a sixpack. People who know a lot about how bodies work often don't seem to take a very personal interest in their subject, it seems to me.

FWIW, I used the bioelectrical impedance thingummy at the gym today. Apart from being a bit lacking in muscle mass, I was quite pleased with the results, but I'm posting this really just to illustrate that I do walk the talk; I'm not a keyboard warrior with a neckbeard and a beer belly writing articles for the Daily Mail. I'm not confident enough to do a JustJennifer (or an Anthony Weiner) with a shirtless photo, so this'll have to do.

For those unfamiliar with the terms: the three charts at the top are total body mass, skeletal muscle mass, and bodyfat mass. Below that are total body water, fat-free mass [from which flab is estimated], protein mass (?), and, er, dunno. The four numbers with blue captions are body mass index, bodyfat percentage, waist-hip ratio (how it calculates that is anybody's guess), and basal metabolic rate (likewise).

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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Kal El » Wed Aug 09, 2017 07:28

You're 186 and 67.5kgs?? :eek:
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Wed Aug 09, 2017 09:43

Yeah, not ideal I know. One of my goals this year has been to be able to lift my own bodyweight (which I can now do, quite comfortably, for 8-9 reps) but I've achieved that mainly by reducing my bodyweight :)

I've never been a fast gainer, but I'm wondering if one of the downsides of low-carb is that muscle size gains are slower: insulin is an important anabolic hormone. I'm making good strength gains while keeping my BF% very low. OTOH, I'd prefer to be around the 75kg mark, so I'm really focusing on keeping carbs modest rather than low, and protein up.
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby HeadhonchoII » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:21

The lipid guy is thin, he doesn't eat a whole lot.
Its important to try and avoid getting diabetes as that has all sort of knock on effects.

I know another expert on aging, they've found some interesting results in a local study that being overweight can protect some older people from other diseases. Older women who were overweight had a lower incidence of fiabetes and lived longer. Diabetes isn't always a function of weight in Asia particularly. The biggest indicator of mortality is your muscle health and mobility when they did studies in predictors of early death. Staying mobile and maintaining muscle mass is important .

There's just a lot we don't know which is why a lot of the experts agree with moderation in everything too and it that way you can have a beer and a steak and enjoy life and not be counting everything and banning everything .

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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Toad » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:02

HeadhonchoII wrote:The lipid guy is thin, he doesn't eat a whole lot.

That's good to hear. I've seen so many doctors handing out health advice to their patients while looking like they're headed for a heart attack themselves.

Its important to try and avoid getting diabetes as that has all sort of knock on effects.

I find it incredible that people don't take this seriously. Diabetes is an absolutely horrible disease. Everyone knows what causes it and how to avoid it, but the lemmings all jump of the cliff anyway. I know two people who actually have diabetes who still insist on eating junk food all the time. One of them says, oh, I can't live without my cakes. Well, you can, and you'll get used to it very quickly. You just don't want to. I honestly can't comprehend how that works. I would hesitate to use the word 'addiction', but there are some strong parallels.

I know another expert on aging, they've found some interesting results in a local study that being overweight can protect some older people from other diseases. Older women who were overweight had a lower incidence of fiabetes and lived longer.

Question is though, compared to whom, eating what? This is the main reason diet research gets so incredibly confusing.

Diabetes isn't always a function of weight in Asia particularly.

Well, you wouldn't really expect it to be. Most disease states present with some combination of signs and symptoms, and not all of them will be present in any given case.

The biggest indicator of mortality is your muscle health and mobility when they did studies in predictors of early death. Staying mobile and maintaining muscle mass is important .

Not just risk of disease and death, but general quality of life IMO. What's the point of living if you can't get around and do everyday stuff?

There's just a lot we don't know which is why a lot of the experts agree with moderation in everything too and it that way you can have a beer and a steak and enjoy life and not be counting everything and banning everything .

I think we know enough. All of the fit, healthy people I know (and I know a lot) are just ordinary people, not diet experts. The common feature amoung all of them is that they eat real food (not takeaways or stuff from packets) and they exercise. It's really that simple.
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Kal El » Wed Aug 09, 2017 13:34

This guy talks about some interesting issues.

Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Heathen filth, the lot of you.
Dr Kurt Langstrom

人不可貌相,海水不可斗量
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby MilkTeaJack » Thu Aug 10, 2017 16:38

Super quick update: my plan to switch my workouts to evenings after work-mostly failure. I come home, hit the kettlebells/BWF and I make it through two sets before I am ready for a shower and bed. Or a videogame. Or Netflix. Or anything shiny. I wonder if its a matter of discipline or if I should just stop screwing around and go hard as soon as I arrive and get it over with?
/there's a euphemism in there somewhere, I just know it.
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver.-Henry Rollins
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Re: Time to lose weight.

Postby Icon » Thu Aug 10, 2017 17:52

Kal El wrote:This guy talks about some interesting issues.



You guys are killing me. Doc just sent me to have more B complex vitamins "for my nerves" and also suggested Omegas among the ways to build up "good cholesterol".

About workouts, I can barely drag my ass out of the chair and head home after finishing work, I am exhausted. I find teh strenght to walk Boby after dinner as a way to help my digestion and then go to bed without suffering from reflux. Workout at night after work I used to do before when I went to the gym more regularly but problem then is that dinner is way too late to sleep comfortably at a decent hour.
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