Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

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Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby cranky laowai » Tue Apr 18, 2017 17:44

This is a thread for judgments. People getting sentenced to prison for _________ years for _________ -- or in some cases not being sent to prison at all. Who gets fined NT$______ for _______. That sort of thing.

In the news this week are two stories. In one, a woman and her boyfriend have been told to pay a total of NT$130,000 for trying to scam cheap rides on the high-speed rail. That sounds like a good way to discourage others from trying that practice.

In another story, however, two workers were killed in an industrial accident in Kaohsiung.

The two men, a 42-year-old surnamed Lu (盧) and a 46-year-old surnamed Lin (林), who worked for a contractor of CSBC Corp, were found in an overflow cabin after workers extinguished a fire. The two apparently died from electric shock while arc welding, according to Kaohsiung City Labor Affairs Bureau on Sunday.

The bureau has ordered the model of arc welder involved in the accident removed from service and all work on the semi-submersible stopped.


The fines so far? The company was told to pay NT$60,000 and the contractor NT$30,000, for "mismanagement."

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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Kal El » Wed Apr 19, 2017 23:10

In Taiwan it's always Johnny Laowai this, and X years old Surnamed So-and-So that. I mean, how many fucking 42 year old Lu's and Mohammad damned 46 year old Lin's are there on the bloody island?? Surely not news worthy type info FFS! :idunno:
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby cranky laowai » Mon Apr 24, 2017 13:52

Here's a new case. The headline for the story reports that a drunk driver was given a "heavy jail term" for hitting and seriously injuring a police officer, resulting in the officer's right leg being amputated. Moreover, injuries to the officer's left knee and ankle "could be permanent, which means his role as the family's bread earner had to be taken over by his wife."

The driver had no license, because that had been revoked after driving drunk in 2014.

Given all that, what do you think the "heavy jail term" is?

Spoiler:
Three years and two months in prison.
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Icon » Mon Apr 24, 2017 16:02

cranky laowai wrote:Here's a new case. The headline for the story reports that a drunk driver was given a "heavy jail term" for hitting and seriously injuring a police officer, resulting in the officer's right leg being amputated. Moreover, injuries to the officer's left knee and ankle "could be permanent, which means his role as the family's bread earner had to be taken over by his wife."

The driver had no license, because that had been revoked after driving drunk in 2014.

Given all that, what do you think the "heavy jail term" is?

Spoiler:
Three years and two months in prison.


Moreover, penalty could be commuted for fine - ie pay your way outta jail. However, in this case, as she is a jobless single mother of two, she claims she will pay with work and effort.
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Kal El » Tue Apr 25, 2017 14:24

cranky laowai wrote:Moreover, injuries to the officer's left knee and ankle "could be permanent, which means his role as the family's bread earner had to be taken over by his wife."

Does that mean he is no longer in the police force? Surely he could just get a desk assignment to see him through to retirement?
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby sandman » Tue Apr 25, 2017 15:09

Kal El wrote:
cranky laowai wrote:Moreover, injuries to the officer's left knee and ankle "could be permanent, which means his role as the family's bread earner had to be taken over by his wife."

Does that mean he is no longer in the police force? Surely he could just get a desk assignment to see him through to retirement?

Oh dearie me! And you call yourself Taiwanese? This is LAWSUIT cash money we are talking about here. Ride that gravy train, copper. RIDE IT! Why! You might be good for NT$30,000!
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Kal El » Tue Apr 25, 2017 16:03

sandman wrote:
Kal El wrote:
cranky laowai wrote:Moreover, injuries to the officer's left knee and ankle "could be permanent, which means his role as the family's bread earner had to be taken over by his wife."

Does that mean he is no longer in the police force? Surely he could just get a desk assignment to see him through to retirement?

Oh dearie me! And you call yourself Taiwanese? This is LAWSUIT cash money we are talking about here. Ride that gravy train, copper. RIDE IT! Why! You might be good for NT$30,000!

He could still open a lawsuit and keep his (desk) job. :idunno:

Edit: A friend of mine was in a traffic accident where he lost a big toe. He got NT$900 000 for his loss. I'm sure the copper could get substantially more for the loss of a leg and the damage to the other leg, not to mention pain and suffering, emotional distress for himself and his family as well as limitations on income and promotions from being consigned to a desk job.
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby sandman » Tue Apr 25, 2017 16:32

Kal El wrote:
sandman wrote:
Kal El wrote:
cranky laowai wrote:Moreover, injuries to the officer's left knee and ankle "could be permanent, which means his role as the family's bread earner had to be taken over by his wife."

Does that mean he is no longer in the police force? Surely he could just get a desk assignment to see him through to retirement?

Oh dearie me! And you call yourself Taiwanese? This is LAWSUIT cash money we are talking about here. Ride that gravy train, copper. RIDE IT! Why! You might be good for NT$30,000!

He could still open a lawsuit and keep his (desk) job. :idunno:

Edit: A friend of mine was in a traffic accident where he lost a big toe. He got NT$900 000 for his loss. I'm sure the copper could get substantially more for the loss of a leg and the damage to the other leg, not to mention pain and suffering, emotional distress for himself and his family as well as limitations on income and promotions from being consigned to a desk job.

Or they could just buy him a 3-wheeler. All he has to do is drive around the neighbourhood signing those wee bits of paper mounted to the walls, after all.
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Kal El » Tue Apr 25, 2017 17:34

sandman wrote:
Kal El wrote:He could still open a lawsuit and keep his (desk) job. :idunno:

Edit: A friend of mine was in a traffic accident where he lost a big toe. He got NT$900 000 for his loss. I'm sure the copper could get substantially more for the loss of a leg and the damage to the other leg, not to mention pain and suffering, emotional distress for himself and his family as well as limitations on income and promotions from being consigned to a desk job.

Or they could just buy him a 3-wheeler. All he has to do is drive around the neighbourhood signing those wee bits of paper mounted to the walls, after all.

Yes, indeed. There's also that option.
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby cranky laowai » Thu Apr 27, 2017 22:22

Remember Wei Ying-chung (魏應充), of Ting Hsin (頂新) Oil and Wei Chuan (味全) Food Corp. fame? He had been sentenced to four years for fraud for having marketed as a premium class of blended oil what was changed to be 98 percent palm oil and just 1 percent olive oil and/or grapeseed oil.

Actually not even that much olive oil, since that had come from a company that added copper chlorophyllin to cheap oils to make them look like olive oil.

Anyway, his sentence was just cut in half to two years.
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby engerim » Fri Apr 28, 2017 00:00

cranky laowai wrote:Remember Wei Ying-chung (魏應充), of Ting Hsin (頂新) Oil and Wei Chuan (味全) Food Corp. fame? He had been sentenced to four years for fraud for having marketed as a premium class of blended oil what was changed to be 98 percent palm oil and just 1 percent olive oil and/or grapeseed oil.

Actually not even that much olive oil, since that had come from a company that added copper chlorophyllin to cheap oils to make them look like olive oil.

Anyway, his sentence was just cut in half to two years.

"Fraudulent labeling of products, meaning that the case fell under the jurisdiction of the Intellectual Property Court." [...] :bravo: :bravo:
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Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby HeadhonchoII » Fri Apr 28, 2017 18:25

I asked my colleague about this today who specializes in food safety testing.

She told me oils have been quite difficult to identify with accuracy traditionally. The common tests get a lipid profile but the manufacturers know the profile for different oils and adapted their mix to look like olive oil during testing.

There are now much enhanced processes to identify oils with more accuracy , Taiwan's FDA have invested in newer systems and trying their best to create validated databases whereby the oils can be more easily screened. They are using some of the most advanced (and expensive) instruments for this research.

Food safety and authentication is our second biggest market worldwide it's a massive issue globally.

Let me state this is a moral problem first, a legal problem second, a testing problem third but at least if we have better systems for monitoring in place we can catch the bastards earlier next time.

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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Corns » Fri Apr 28, 2017 21:24

I have always been amazed at how touchy Asian countries are when it comes to Sanitary and Phyto Sanitary issues with regards to food products and how lax they are internally. It is quite the contrast. :twocents:
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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby cranky laowai » Tue Jun 06, 2017 21:45

And now there's a case of two peopleselling fake vaccines to pig farmers.
... During the investigation, prosecutors found that two men had been purchasing genuine vaccines at a cost of NT$3,750 (US$124) per vial, diluting them with distilled water, and repackaging them.

The two suspects were selling the fake vaccines to animal drug distributors and pig farmers at a price of between NT$3,250 and NT$3,700 per vial, according to prosecutors....

Investigators found that around 7,800 vials of fake vaccines had been sold to 32 pig farmers, and around 393,600 pigs had been injected with the vaccines. Many of the pigs died because the fake vaccines, diluted to 8 percent of the normal strength, could not protect them against porcine circovirus (PCV).

The fake vaccines also contained live bacteria that may have caused infection in the pigs, prosecutors said.

The maximum penalty for making or importing counterfeit veterinary drugs is seven years in prison and a fine of NT$4.5 million, according to the Veterinary Drugs Control Act.


So they bought the genuine article for NT$3,750 per vial, diluting this down to 8 percent with distilled water, repackaged the stuff, and sold around 7,800 vials "at a price of between NT$3,250 and NT$3,700 per vial" -- so let's just say NT$3,500 each.

To get sufficient 8 percent solution for 7800 vials of adulterated goop, they would need to purchase 624 vials of the real thing.
Code: Select all
  624 x NT$3,750 = NT$2.34 million.


Add in some money for empty vials, distilled water, and perhaps advertising. Let's call it an even NT$2.50 million in total expenses.

Their gross income was
Code: Select all
   7,800 x NT$3,500 = NT$27.30 million


Let's say that, however unlikely this is to occur, both men are fined the maximum of NT$4.5 million each, and that -- though this is even more unlikely -- they both end up paying the full fine instead of having all their money somehow go "missing" come payment time. That's NT$9 million.

Code: Select all
Gross income - maximum fine - expenses = net profit

NT$27.3 million - NT$9 million  - NT$2.5 million = NT$15.8 million profit


Conclusion: In Taiwan, crime pays.

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Re: Crime and punishment: sentences and fines

Postby Tempo Gain » Wed Jun 07, 2017 03:03

I wonder how they decided 8% was a good number.
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