WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

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WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby TainanCowboy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 19:45

WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Despite recent attempts to paint the United States as a major global polluter, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), the U.S. is among the cleanest nations on the planet. Imagine that... :ponder:
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Big Vern » Mon Jun 05, 2017 20:54

Fine particulates in urban areas - basically smog. Every developed county is going to score highly on this for reasons too obvious to state.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby jimipresley » Mon Jun 05, 2017 21:05

Big Vern wrote:Fine particulates in urban areas - basically smog. Every developed county is going to score highly on this for reasons too obvious to state.

Also, The Home of the Brave outsources its carbon emissions to places like China and India, and African countries, where there are little to no government interference in industry and mining. It's hilarious how they brag about how their pollution is so low, when they're sending their industry to cheaper labour forces and places where nobody really gives a rat's ass about emissions and pollution.

And then, ironically, there's the whining about how Americans are losing jobs. Is this fucking rocket science?
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Mick » Tue Jun 06, 2017 13:27

jimipresley wrote:
Big Vern wrote:Fine particulates in urban areas - basically smog. Every developed county is going to score highly on this for reasons too obvious to state.

Also, The Home of the Brave outsources its carbon emissions to places like China and India, and African countries, where there are little to no government interference in industry and mining. It's hilarious how they brag about how their pollution is so low, when they're sending their industry to cheaper labour forces and places where nobody really gives a rat's ass about emissions and pollution.

And then, ironically, there's the whining about how Americans are losing jobs. Is this fucking rocket science?


You refer to "them" or "they" as if they are all the same people, They are not, let me give you an example.

I buy an Asus laptop and call the customer help desk and the person I talk to is Chinese not Taiwanese. why? Because they (Asus) have figured out it's cheaper and saves them money, they (the local population) are not happy at jobs being outsourced and they (the government) could make it mandatory to hire local help desk staff for products bought in Taiwan if the government felt inclined to do so.

Scale that up on a global scale with the top 100 companies trading 10's of trillions of dollars a year and you see who is making the rules for their ever increasing profits at the expense of everyone else with politicians increasingly catering to the whims of lobbyists and think tanks, globally, not just limited to the United States. There used to be a case for aligning with a particular political party but increasingly it's becoming a false dichotomy, if I were cynical I might even suggest the increased tribalism we see today related to politics is deliberate distraction, encouraged and flames of social unrest and division fanned with the help of the media to distract from just how badly the general population is getting shafted by politicians rubber stamping legislation created by corporations.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Corns » Tue Jun 06, 2017 16:26

Mick wrote: and they (the government) could make it mandatory to hire local help desk staff for products bought in Taiwan if the government felt inclined to do so.


The problem with this mentality is reciprocity. If you initiate such local preferences and make them mandatory, either you violate international trade agreements, or worse yet, you cause other countries to retaliate. By supporting such localist policies loudly and vocally, you are basically telling SMEs that they can never grow or expand their markets outside of the regional market. You are significantly limiting growth. Furthermore, by championing localism loudly you bring attention to your company and piss off international players.

And this is something that people on the left often forget about -- what pays for the generous social safety net (that some of the countries such as Germany have had since Bismarckian times)? A thriving, international globalised economy does. Without BMW, Mercedes, Siemens, etc. and their global reach and success (paying taxes too) etc. you can be sure Germany would not have such a generous system.

There is nothing wrong with promoting local talent and industries. It just needs to be done without your `mandatory` wording and such rigidity. Not that difficult to do actually (a company can be transparent, have open bidding etc., and still choose local), it just requires smart and capable people that know the loopholes. :lol: :lol: But to champion hiring or manufacturing locally? To championing offshoring? It is smarter to play it in the middle and not make preferences public. To be balanced in both.

Taiwan has been successfully in global trading while being highly protectionist until recently on the island. If countries truly adhered to reciprocity in their dealings with Taiwan, many of Taiwan`s success stories would have been failures.

The good thing is that in a world that is more connected than before in terms of agreements etc., it is not as easy to not play by the rules. :smile:

On Trump, he is displeased exactly because this Agreement is synonymous with white, liberal guilt. :lol: Punish the imperialists but let the developing world off. :lol: :lol: He is absolutely right to demand renegotiation. If the salons of Europe don`t want to -- screw `em. :twocents:
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Mick » Wed Jun 07, 2017 03:55

Thanks Corns, I wrote more than one reply only to delete it. I think before going further it would be helpful if you would confirm in your mind, this is not left vs right politics. Indeed the global initiative has been pursued by both the left and right for decades and that Trump uniquely in this respect differs from the norm we have seen from presidents as far back as Clinton, perhaps even more.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Corns » Wed Jun 07, 2017 04:03

Mick wrote:Thanks Corns, I wrote more than one reply only to delete it. I think before going further it would be helpful if you would confirm in your mind, this is not left vs right politics. Indeed the global initiative has been pursued by both the left and right for decades and that Trump uniquely in this respect differs from the norm we have seen from presidents as far back as Clinton, perhaps even more.


Currently not a right versus left issue as there are free traders and protectionists in most mainstream parties. But the preference towards hiring local and buying local has traditionally been more popular with leftists. I am a free trader but am basically stating that giving away your intent of buying or hiring local or offshoring is poor corporate strategy as the reality is often a grey area. Most companies of a certain size will do both and aligning to one or the other is just politics. :twocents:
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby cfimages » Wed Jun 07, 2017 05:59

Corns wrote:
Mick wrote:Thanks Corns, I wrote more than one reply only to delete it. I think before going further it would be helpful if you would confirm in your mind, this is not left vs right politics. Indeed the global initiative has been pursued by both the left and right for decades and that Trump uniquely in this respect differs from the norm we have seen from presidents as far back as Clinton, perhaps even more.


Currently not a right versus left issue as there are free traders and protectionists in most mainstream parties. But the preference towards hiring local and buying local has traditionally been more popular with leftists. I am a free trader but am basically stating that giving away your intent of buying or hiring local or offshoring is poor corporate strategy as the reality is often a grey area. Most companies of a certain size will do both and aligning to one or the other is just politics. :twocents:

I've always seen it the other way round. The left tend to be more local and anti free trade. Remember the big anti WTO protests of the late 90's, early 2000's.

.



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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Toad » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:30

Corns wrote:
Mick wrote:Thanks Corns, I wrote more than one reply only to delete it. I think before going further it would be helpful if you would confirm in your mind, this is not left vs right politics. Indeed the global initiative has been pursued by both the left and right for decades and that Trump uniquely in this respect differs from the norm we have seen from presidents as far back as Clinton, perhaps even more.


Currently not a right versus left issue as there are free traders and protectionists in most mainstream parties. But the preference towards hiring local and buying local has traditionally been more popular with leftists. I am a free trader but am basically stating that giving away your intent of buying or hiring local or offshoring is poor corporate strategy as the reality is often a grey area. Most companies of a certain size will do both and aligning to one or the other is just politics. :twocents:


Globalization isn't really one single thing. There are several different ways to play it. There's the American Way - which is to outsource your pollution, your slavery, and whatever else you believe (from an ideological rather than a factual view) brings prosperity. There's the Ricardian approach, which recognises that in a market where things are priced fairly, comparative advantage allows different nations to prosper on the basis of doing whatever they do best, trading mutually-desirable goods. Then there's the extreme-left approach, which recognises that markets are almost never priced fairly (for example, transcontinental shipping is heavily subsidized) and attempts to fix this by making the market even more unfair.

I can't think of any country that actually takes a pragmatic approach to international trade - for example, by removing trade barriers to exporters that don't make a habit of egregious subsidies to nonprofitable industries (hello, USA); encouraging promising local industry to ensure a sustainable balance-of-trade (without bureaucratic pick-the-winner competitions); and attempting to correct market distortions (as opposed to working around them with more distortions).

And then, ironically, there's the whining about how Americans are losing jobs. Is this fucking rocket science?

Americans, broadly speaking, have a huge blind spot about waste. Most humans do, but Americans really take the cake. They simply don't get that wasting stuff is money thrown down the toilet. I was just reading about a composting facility in Vermont that was going to get shut down because a select few are benefiting from people wasting stuff. I can't imagine how anyone can actually benefit from landfills, but apparently it does happen. This composting company are collecting all the food waste from local schools and businesses (with the support of one branch of the local authority), producing compost and eggs (from a flock of 1200 chickens) at almost zero cost. A different branch of the local authority hates this, and somehow managed to get a court order to shut them down without the case actually going to court. Bizarre stuff, and it's not an isolated incident. Various similar operations have been shut down over the years because they offended their local Donald Trumps.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/the ... id=2134310

EDIT: this was from a few years back, and they're still in business, so presumably the court order was overturned - not, I would guess, without several thousand $ disappearing into the pockets of lawyers for no good reason.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby TainanCowboy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 13:50

Uh, yeah, and then there is this from a mere 14 hours ago:

lThere have never been more jobs available in America
excert:
Now is a great time to be looking for work in America.

The latest job openings and labor turnover survey — known as the JOLTS report — released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Tuesday showed that in April there were 6.04 million jobs open in the U.S. In the same month last year there were 5.64 million jobs open.

This is the most ever for the series dating back to its inception in 2001. The jump in job openings also came as hiring and firing declined slight in April, indicating that the labor market continues to tighten as the available pool of workers has been taken up during the post-crisis economic expansion.

So, it does appear that jobs are available.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Corns » Wed Jun 07, 2017 14:01

Corns wrote: But the preference towards hiring local and buying local has traditionally been more popular with leftists.


cfimages wrote: I've always seen it the other way round. The left tend to be more local and anti free trade. Remember the big anti WTO protests of the late 90's, early 2000's.


Isn`t that what I just said?
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Big Vern » Wed Jun 07, 2017 18:01

Corns wrote:
Corns wrote: But the preference towards hiring local and buying local has traditionally been more popular with leftists.


cfimages wrote: I've always seen it the other way round. The left tend to be more local and anti free trade. Remember the big anti WTO protests of the late 90's, early 2000's.


Isn`t that what I just said?


You're both finally in agreement. This is a good thing. :bow:
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Big Vern » Wed Jun 07, 2017 18:06

TainanCowboy wrote:Uh, yeah, and then there is this from a mere 14 hours ago:

lThere have never been more jobs available in America
excert:
Now is a great time to be looking for work in America.

The latest job openings and labor turnover survey — known as the JOLTS report — released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Tuesday showed that in April there were 6.04 million jobs open in the U.S. In the same month last year there were 5.64 million jobs open.

This is the most ever for the series dating back to its inception in 2001. The jump in job openings also came as hiring and firing declined slight in April, indicating that the labor market continues to tighten as the available pool of workers has been taken up during the post-crisis economic expansion.

So, it does appear that jobs are available.


It's the quality of jobs available that enabled Trump to get elected.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby Toad » Wed Jun 07, 2017 19:20

TainanCowboy wrote:So, it does appear that jobs are available.

As BV suggested, the fact that those jobs are open, as opposed to filled, tells me they're not the sort of jobs anybody would want; or, possibly, that there aren't enough qualified Americans to fill high-level jobs.
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Re: WHO: United States Among Least Polluting Nations on the Planet

Postby cfimages » Wed Jun 07, 2017 19:42

Corns wrote:
Corns wrote: But the preference towards hiring local and buying local has traditionally been more popular with leftists.


cfimages wrote: I've always seen it the other way round. The left tend to be more local and anti free trade. Remember the big anti WTO protests of the late 90's, early 2000's.


Isn`t that what I just said?

Oops, you did. I completely misread it.

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