Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

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Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby mltskyhawk » Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:57

Hey there, I am not sure I am posting this in the right section, please move to the right section if it's not.

I am Julian Tirazona, 27 years old, I am currently in Taipei studying International Masters in International Communications Studies at the National Chengchi University. I am taking a class in Journalism in which I am writing I am writing my final news analysis paper about Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan. I am looking to interview one or two people who are experts on the subject, maybe someone who has written something related, in a PhD, or Masters or something of the sort. It could also be someone who has been affected by this topic. I am not really planning to publish this article and am just treating it as a final paper for the class. Feel free to find me and message me on Facebook. Any help would be greatly appreciated, preferably sometime before Thursday would be great. Thanks in advance, and hope to hear from you guys soon.

Julian Tirazona
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Tempo Gain » Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:19

Hi, respectfully, I presume you mean discrimination against English teachers? What I'm more unsure about however, is discrimination under what circumstances? Do you mean against teachers who belong to specific sub-groups, or something else?
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby mltskyhawk » Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:43

not only against, but also positive discrimination, under any circumstances, could be during selection period or even during work. Not looking for specific sub-groups
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby jimipresley » Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:44

What language are you going to be writing this paper in? English or Chinese?
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby mltskyhawk » Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:49

English
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Big Vern » Tue Nov 14, 2017 07:58

mltskyhawk wrote:not only against, but also positive discrimination, under any circumstances, could be during selection period or even during work. Not looking for specific sub-groups


Discrimination begins during the selection period because people who look the stereotype of a native English speaker are far more likely to get offered jobs. There is no positive discrimination as far as I know. Groups that suffer discrimination are not favoured here at all. Are you using a non-standard definition of positive discrimination?

You say you're not looking for specific sub-groups - but they are the ones who are experiencing discrimination. ABCs, people of colour etc.
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Big Vern » Tue Nov 14, 2017 08:43

One anecdote related to this topic is the British Council. I heard that when they started in Taiwan they couldn't open a school as a buxiban because the difficulties regarding passports would have broken UK discrimination rules. They had to set up as some kind of consultation centre instead and bypassed the MOE during recruitment. They've now found a way around that and I believe they are now technically a buxiban.

Interesting cultural difference. In the UK they'd have your balls if you tried to pull something like "North American passport holders preferred".
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Bunks » Tue Nov 14, 2017 15:11

Big Vern wrote:
mltskyhawk wrote:not only against, but also positive discrimination, under any circumstances, could be during selection period or even during work. Not looking for specific sub-groups


Discrimination begins during the selection period because people who look the stereotype of a native English speaker are far more likely to get offered jobs. There is no positive discrimination as far as I know. Groups that suffer discrimination are not favoured here at all. Are you using a non-standard definition of positive discrimination?

You say you're not looking for specific sub-groups - but they are the ones who are experiencing discrimination. ABCs, people of colour etc.


If it's a qualitative analysis, the sub groups will emerge thematically. Best not to restrict the scope of your data at the outset.
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Big Vern » Tue Nov 14, 2017 15:28

Bunks wrote:
Big Vern wrote:
mltskyhawk wrote:not only against, but also positive discrimination, under any circumstances, could be during selection period or even during work. Not looking for specific sub-groups


Discrimination begins during the selection period because people who look the stereotype of a native English speaker are far more likely to get offered jobs. There is no positive discrimination as far as I know. Groups that suffer discrimination are not favoured here at all. Are you using a non-standard definition of positive discrimination?

You say you're not looking for specific sub-groups - but they are the ones who are experiencing discrimination. ABCs, people of colour etc.


If it's a qualitative analysis, the sub groups will emerge thematically. Best not to restrict the scope of your data at the outset.


Good point.

The kindy rules are discriminatory. Basically you're not allowed to teach in one because it looks like you might be an English speaker who it is presumed would be teaching English.

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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Kal El » Thu Nov 16, 2017 08:06

Big Vern wrote:
Bunks wrote:
Big Vern wrote:
mltskyhawk wrote:not only against, but also positive discrimination, under any circumstances, could be during selection period or even during work. Not looking for specific sub-groups


Discrimination begins during the selection period because people who look the stereotype of a native English speaker are far more likely to get offered jobs. There is no positive discrimination as far as I know. Groups that suffer discrimination are not favoured here at all. Are you using a non-standard definition of positive discrimination?

You say you're not looking for specific sub-groups - but they are the ones who are experiencing discrimination. ABCs, people of colour etc.


If it's a qualitative analysis, the sub groups will emerge thematically. Best not to restrict the scope of your data at the outset.


Good point.

The kindy rules are discriminatory. Basically you're not allowed to teach in one because it looks like you might be an English speaker who it is presumed would be teaching English.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The kindy "rules" (law) require kindy teachers to have 1.) a degree in early childhood education, and 2.) a certificate (requires a government test) for the relevant age group you're teaching (小, 中 or 大班).
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Big Vern » Thu Nov 16, 2017 08:21

Kal El wrote:
Big Vern wrote:
Good point.

The kindy rules are discriminatory. Basically you're not allowed to teach in one because it looks like you might be an English speaker who it is presumed would be teaching English.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The kindy "rules" (law) require kindy teachers to have 1.) a degree in early childhood education, and 2.) a certificate (requires a government test) for the relevant age group you're teaching (小, 中 or 大班).


I'm sure I remember reading a post in a previous discussion about this that you knew a fully qualified kindy teacher from South Africa who still got deported.

Isn't there also some minimum hours of English instruction rule the authorities can pull to obtain a fine and deportation? EDIT: Sorry, all foreign languages are not permitted to be taught.
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Big Vern » Thu Nov 16, 2017 08:48

I've copied this from elsewhere, but I have confidence in its source:

幼兒園教保服務實施準則 (kindergarten educare implementation guidelines (or criteria, standards, rules, etc.)), is only available in Chinese. Article 13:

幼兒園實施教保活動課程,應依下列規定為之:
一、每學期應至少召開一次全園性教保活動課程發展會議。
二、訂定行事曆、作息計畫及課程計畫。
三、落實健康教育、生命教育、安全教育、品德教育及性別平等教育。
四、以統整方式實施,不得採分科方式進行。
五、以自行發展為原則,並應自幼兒生活經驗及在地生活環境中選材。
六、有選用輔助教材之必要時,其內容應符合幼兒園教保活動課程大綱之精神。
七、不得採全日、半日或分科之外語教學。
八、不得進行以精熟為目的之讀、寫、算教學。

A kindergarten should implement an educare activity curriculum in accordance with the following rules:
1, A kindergarten-wide educare curriculum development meeting should be held at least once every semester.
2, The calendar of events should be fixed, including plans for work and rest periods as well as plans for the curriculum.
3, Health education, life education, safety education, moral education, and gender equality education should be included.
4, The curriculum should be implemented in a unified manner, not separately by individual departments.
5, For the principle of self-development, [teaching] materials should be selected according to children's life experiences and the local environment.
6, When it is necessary to select supplementary teaching materials, the contents should be consistent with the spirit of the curriculum.
7, The teaching of foreign languages is not permitted, whether whole-day, half-day, or by department [or division].
8, Teaching with the aim of mastering reading, writing, or arithmetic is not permitted.

So, a foreign teacher with a degree in early childhood education plus government certificate should be able to obtain an address on their ARC which is correct for the kindergarten. Therefore, there should be no risk of deportation. Perhaps at worst a fine for the school if it's proven that foreign languages are being taught. However, we know of foreign teachers who are qualified in early childhood education still getting deported. It's a head-scratcher, and doesn't reek of equality.

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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Kal El » Thu Nov 16, 2017 13:30

Big Vern wrote:
Kal El wrote:
Big Vern wrote:
Good point.

The kindy rules are discriminatory. Basically you're not allowed to teach in one because it looks like you might be an English speaker who it is presumed would be teaching English.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The kindy "rules" (law) require kindy teachers to have 1.) a degree in early childhood education, and 2.) a certificate (requires a government test) for the relevant age group you're teaching (小, 中 or 大班).


I'm sure I remember reading a post in a previous discussion about this that you knew a fully qualified kindy teacher from South Africa who still got deported.

Isn't there also some minimum hours of English instruction rule the authorities can pull to obtain a fine and deportation? EDIT: Sorry, all foreign languages are not permitted to be taught.

That certificate is not easy to get, even for a degree qualified native Mandarin speaker. And a very good case can be made for Mandarin being a foreign language. :twocents:
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Big Vern » Thu Nov 16, 2017 14:04

Kal El wrote:
Big Vern wrote:
Kal El wrote:
Big Vern wrote:
Good point.

The kindy rules are discriminatory. Basically you're not allowed to teach in one because it looks like you might be an English speaker who it is presumed would be teaching English.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The kindy "rules" (law) require kindy teachers to have 1.) a degree in early childhood education, and 2.) a certificate (requires a government test) for the relevant age group you're teaching (小, 中 or 大班).


I'm sure I remember reading a post in a previous discussion about this that you knew a fully qualified kindy teacher from South Africa who still got deported.

Isn't there also some minimum hours of English instruction rule the authorities can pull to obtain a fine and deportation? EDIT: Sorry, all foreign languages are not permitted to be taught.

That certificate is not easy to get, even for a degree qualified native Mandarin speaker. And a very good case can be made for Mandarin being a foreign language. :twocents:


It's good that the certificate isn't easy to get. However, my point stands that if a teacher looks like they may be an English speaker it is presumed that they are teaching English. In the UK it would not be accepted to harass, say, Mr. Tsai who was teaching in pre-school because it was assumed he might be teaching Mandarin. Well, the issue wouldn't even come up for discussion.
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Re: Discrimination of English Teachers in Taiwan

Postby Kal El » Thu Nov 16, 2017 22:13

Big Vern wrote:However, my point stands that if a teacher looks like they may be an English speaker it is presumed that they are teaching English. In the UK it would not be accepted to harass, say, Mr. Tsai who was teaching in pre-school because it was assumed he might be teaching Mandarin. Well, the issue wouldn't even come up for discussion.

I get what you're saying, but in England it is very possible Mr. Tsai is a native speaker of English born and raised in Somewhere-on-Tyne. In Taiwan, it is statistically highly unlikely Mr. Smith can speak Mandarin and/or is Taiwanese. Comparing a homogenous society to a fairly cosmopolitan heterogenous society in cases like these is pointless. :twocents:
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